How Latter-day Saint women can achieve true self-reliance — and why they need to do so

President Camille Johnson, head of the women’s organization for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, set off a firestorm when, speaking during a worldwide broadcast last year, she described how, as a mother, she managed to put her family first even while building a career as an attorney.

When, Latter-day Saint women wondered, did it become OK for mothers to seek out paid work?

For decades, and especially in the 1980s and ’90s, church leaders routinely framed women’s primary place and responsibility as in the home, with at least one prominent leader, apostle-turned-church President Ezra Taft Benson, suggesting that a woman’s salvation was on the line if she opted for a different path.

The church’s messaging has since changed. But a remaining outcome of this former counsel, says Utah State University Professor Susan Madsen, is a generation of women who lack the formal education, work experience and confidence to support themselves and their children in the case of divorce or death of a spouse.

The founding director of the Utah Women & Leadership Project appeared on The Salt Lake Tribune’s “Mormon Land” podcast to talk about what she has observed and to offer women advice of her own. Also participating in this conversation was Tiffany Sowby, founder of Rising Violet, a nonprofit that offers cash gifts to women who suddenly find themselves the breadwinner.

Here are excerpts from that conversation, edited for length and clarity:

How can this message that mothers should prioritize family over their careers put Latter-day Saint women at a disadvantage when it comes to longtime financial security?

Madsen • In just the last couple of months, I‘ve had probably 20 women come up to me after I‘ve spoken at various events and say, “My husband just left our family, and I have no or just some education, but I‘ve never actually been employed. And I am scared to death.”

They do not resent the fact that they are mothers or that they spent time with their children. But we have a real either/or mentality in the state. You can do one thing; you can’t do the other.

So bottom line, we have a lot of women in Utah who do not feel prepared and confident to financially provide for their family. In some cases, their spouses are still in the home, but they can’t afford house payments anymore. It takes two incomes these days, for most people, to raise a family.

Tiffany, what are some of the stories you’ve heard from Rising Violet applicants?

Sowby • We’re not an organization only for Utahns, but I would say 90% of our applicants are from here. And over and over again, the overarching theme that I see in there, without them spelling it out really specifically, is that societal and cultural and religious expectations led to their giving up their degree. They had some college, but then they gave it up for their husband’s education or career because he had greater earning potential or that’s just what the church teachings were.

I see a lot of financial abuse. A lot of these women are just blindsided. They have no idea what was even going on with the finances while they were married. They haven’t had that workforce experience. They just have this huge gap in their resumes, and there’s a lot of competition with these younger people coming right out of college.

Madsen • It’s really amazing how much more confidence a woman has when she’s worked even part time.

How does lack of education, work experience and a clear view of the family finances contribute to abuse?

Sowby • A lot of what I see in our applicants and also in conversations with women over the years is that, because the husband is earning the money, it’s his money instead of our money. And there’s certainly exceptions to that. But a lot of these women just got a small budget that doesn’t take into consideration all that unpaid labor that the stay-at-home mother is doing.

Madsen • We have heard stories from women who are very controlled and that puts them in a place where they really don’t feel like they can leave.

If they don’t believe they have the education or skills to earn money on their own, they will stay year after year, decade after decade and deal with the abuse.

And it’s not just women in the Latter-day Saint religion. Anytime you have a patriarchal environment, you create a breeding ground for abuse of power. It’s not what the religion teaches. My faith teaches against being violent in the home. But people who want to abuse and control, they can use the teachings that they learn in ways that were not intended to get power over other people. And we know in Utah, 1 in 3 women will suffer from domestic violence. We’re high when it comes to sexual assault as well.

How has the current affordability crisis, which often requires both parents to work, impacted how church leaders and women talk about what it means to nurture their children and prioritize motherhood today?

Madsen • In general, we’re giving families a little more space to figure it out. The church has always emphasized education, right? But more and more there’s been an emphasis on graduating, getting prepared, all of that.

Sowby • We have to also take the affordability piece out of the equation. What if a woman wants to work because she wants to work? We should honor and respect and celebrate women who choose to work for no other reason than self-fulfillment.

Madsen • To that point, it’s really critical to note that a woman can have more than one calling. Yes, I‘m called to be a mother and now a grandmother. But I have felt absolutely called by God to do the work I do.

What role should the church play in caring for those women who stayed home and now find themselves the breadwinner and struggling to support their family?

Sowby • On one hand, you could say the church doesn’t owe them anything. We’re individuals, and we make our own choices. On the other hand, as recently as 10 years ago, the Young Women books were still very heavily focused on home and family and these teachings. So in that sense, I feel like the church does owe us something — an acknowledgment of the hurt these messages caused, perhaps.

Financially? I don’t know. But one suggestion I would offer is inserting that discussion, maybe in the form of a temple recommend interview, in a church setting of whether a couple share financial information.

Madsen • There are real candid conversations that need to happen. We tiptoe around so many things, including the violence. And in order to really help women, and families, we need to dig in.

We also need to look at how we care for women once they’re in this situation. There’s a very dangerous common assumption that women and men both make around single mothers. And that is they are not strong. Don’t make assumptions for them.

I have heard from probably a hundred divorced women in the last few years that they’re treated differently in their Latter-day Saint wards. If the spouse dies, they get more grace. If it’s divorce, they are judged more harshly than the men, and people stop inviting them to things. We just need to give each other more grace.

Let’s not judge one another. Only support.

Sowby • Let’s say there’s a woman who’s just divorced and has experienced financial abuse or control or whatever from her husband. Now, to get help from the church, she has to turn to her bishop, a man. And so, once again, she’s reliant on another man deciding what help she receives.

Madsen • And I‘ll tell you, there’s all kinds of research that show that men support other men more than they support female victims. One thing I‘m doing is I am starting to become an advocate of making it so that women who are really suffering with whatever — abuse or other things — can go and talk to their Relief Society president who can then be her advocate with the bishop.

What’s your advice to women who are listening, married and not?

Sowby • Get an education, gain marketable skills and work experience. Don’t put your ability to be financially independent in somebody else’s control.

Madsen • Get that associate degree, then bachelor’s. And these days a master’s education still shows that you’re going to make more money. You’re going to have more confidence. You’re going to have leadership skills, all of that. That’s number one. But I tell women over and over, whatever college you got, that mattered. So you need to have more confidence in that.

And even as a mother, you can work part time or run for public office.

As an active Latter-day Saint myself, I always say self-reliance is that both partners — if there are two in the home — are educated. Both have a real background and confidence in working and providing for the family. That, to me, is self-reliance.

Finally, what resources are available to women struggling to support themselves?

Madsen • The Utah Women & Leadership Project, utwomen.org, is one. Another is abolderwayforward.org, which has 29 county coalitions and 18 main areas of focus, including health, entrepreneurship, domestic violence — all of those. The Stella H, Oaks Foundation offers awesome scholarships as well.

Sowby • The Live Your Dream Foundation provides scholarships for education. There’s a lot of resources for education in Utah. No single woman should have to pay that. And then, of course, Rising Violet.

To hear the full podcast, go to sltrib.com/podcasts/mormonland. To receive full “Mormon Land” transcripts, along with our complete newsletter and access to all Tribune religion content, support us at Patreon.com/mormonland.

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