Even before a recent headline-grabbing General Conference address, the position of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on gambling was unequivocal.

The Utah-based faith is “opposed to gambling,” its website declares. “[It] is motivated by a desire to get something for nothing. This desire is spiritually destructive. It leads participants away from the Savior’s teachings.”

Apostle D. Todd Christofferson’s speech reaffirmed that stance, denouncing online sports betting, casino-type games and the exploding prediction markets.

“For us as Latter-day Saints,” said Christofferson, second counselor in the governing First Presidency, “overarching all other concerns is the fact that gambling is morally wrong.”

So when The Atlantic staked staff writer McKay Coppins, a practicing Latter-day Saint, to $10,000 to place bets while investigating the booming business of online sports wagering, he felt the need to consult with his bishop.

Since the money wouldn’t be his own and the assignment was for research, the wary church leader gave Coppins the go sign but added a caution: “Be careful.”

During the ensuing months, Coppins learned the wisdom behind that warning as he came to understand the addictive nature of gambling and the odds against winning at it.

“I started with $10,000,” he said. “I ended with less than $200. I lost, basically, all of it.”

Here are edited excerpts from a “Mormon Land” podcast (recorded a couple of weeks before Christofferson’s conference talk), in which Coppins discussed his article, titled “Sucker: My year as a degenerate gambler,” along with what he discovered about the industry, himself and the implications of sports betting for Latter-day Saints.

How did this magazine assignment come about?

The initial assignment seemed pretty straightforward. It was to write a story about the booming sports betting industry, right? And so as I mapped out my reporting plan, I made all the plans that you would imagine, right? I was going to interview executives at the major sportsbooks. I was going to interview gamblers and addiction counselors and athletes. And I remember this meeting where I sat down with my editor and I was like, “All right, so this is my plan. These are the people I’m going to talk to.”

He said, “Yeah, that all sounds good, but we have another idea. We feel like to really understand this phenomenon, you have to experience it firsthand, and so we think you should actually spend some time gambling on sports as you’re reporting on this industry.”

It was funny because I was like, “Well, I hear you, and I get why that would be a good idea, but I’m really not a gambler, and, in fact, you know, as a practicing Mormon, I don’t gamble for religious reasons.”

He responded, “No, no, no, we know. That’s what makes it so great.” And then he said “we have a theological loophole that we think will work. We’ll give you $10,000 to gamble with. We’ll cover your losses, but in order to keep you kind of emotionally invested will split any profits with you 50-50.” Which is why I went and talked to my bishop about it. I wasn’t really asking for his permission. It was more his counsel.

What did your bishop say?

I watched this look of pastoral concern come over his face. He ultimately did say, “I understand the difference, and I don’t think you’re doing anything wrong,” but he was worried. … It turns out his concern was prescient.

So you started placing bets. Was it fun?

I’ve never been that interested in gambling. But five minutes into the first game that I gambled I was like, “Oh, I get it. I get why people do this,” because it is incredibly fun. It’s thrilling. It immediately heightens your investment in whatever game you’re watching.

Do you know if sports betting is a problem for Latter-day Saints, especially young men?

We don’t have a ton of data on it. Anecdotally, I would tell you that I get the sense that a significant portion of young men in the church are betting on sports. A lot of them actually draw a distinction in their minds between gambling and sports betting, which I think is really interesting. They think of gambling as scratch-off lottery tickets or slot machines or going to a casino, playing poker, roulette.

They think of sports betting as something different, and I don’t totally blame them because if you watch sports, the entire culture of American sports now is oriented around gambling. Every league is sponsored by the sportsbooks. If you watch a game on any channel, any time of the day, you’re bombarded with ads for these sportsbooks. … A lot of them don’t even really think of it as wrong, and I think part of it is, frankly, because there hasn’t been a ton of messaging or rhetoric about gambling from church leaders this century.

You had illusions early on about what you could do with your half of any winnings. Explain that.

We’re plotting kitchen renovations, and my wife was like, “We need a new KitchenAid mixer.” … I won 20 bucks, and all of a sudden we’re talking about putting an addition on our house from all my gambling winnings. But that is part of what gambling does to your brain. In fact, the entire industry is designed around convincing the gambler that he’s the exception.

Statistician Nate Silver said, “Oh, you don’t understand, McKay. If you make one penny, you’ll be better than 98% of gamblers over the course of an NFL season.” … But the industry is incredibly good at convincing you that you’re going to be in that 2%.

What surprised you most about this experience?

Probably the most surprising thing is how quickly it started to bleed into my personal life. … Within five or six weeks, I was listening to gambling podcasts in the shower. I was watching five NFL games at once every Sunday. My wife caught me checking DraftKings at church at one point, which did not go over well.

You said wagering on games was fun at the start. Did it stay that way?

At first, I was kind of excited. I was like “Oh, this NFL season is going to be way more fun because every game I watch, I’m going to be invested in.” But it’s a weird thing about gambling: It starts out as chasing an emotional high, but at some point it flips to you’re actually doing it to avoid a bad emotion. A lot of the time I was watching games just stressed out about the prospect of losing. If I had an especially bad Sunday on betting, it would ruin the rest of the week for me.

Do you think the church should speak out on the topic more directly?

It has not been addressed in General Conference since sports betting kind of exploded in popularity. I think that the men of the church, in particular, would probably benefit from a lot more spiritual counsel on this subject. And, anecdotally, I’m hearing from bishops, I’m hearing from Young Men leaders, I’m hearing from professors and administrators at church-owned universities who say, “Oh yeah, this has become a problem.” … I would guess that we will actually hear about this in an upcoming General Conference.

I don’t want to be judgmental here. I think a lot of young men, in particular, just don’t even think about it as a moral issue. They think of gambling as just like a fun thing that you do. A lot of them think about it, frankly, as a way to make money, which is very misguided. … I hope that we do hear more from the church soon.

[After Christofferson’s speech, which referenced Coppins’ article, the journalist wrote on social media: “I was grateful to hear him quote my recent story, but mostly I was just grateful for his wisdom on what I think is an urgent issue.”]

Have Kalshi and the other “prediction markets” affected the gambing industry?

The prediction markets have had a huge triumph of branding. First of all, the fact that we call them prediction markets, like we’re all contributing to it, right? But they have been able to convince millions of people that this is something different.

A survey showed a strong majority said gambling was immoral. A smaller majority said sports betting was immoral, and prediction markets were treated as morality neutral. Basically, they didn’t think of it as gambling, even though at least, in my opinion, it very clearly is.

Would you have paid tithing on any winnings?

The policy is you’re not supposed to. Church leaders supposedly won’t take the money if they know [that’s where it originated].

You’re not betting on sports now, right?

I’m not.

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