As the two women on The Tribune’s editorial board, we’ve been reading a bunch of recent reporting on how women in Utah are doing.
In case you missed it, data columnist Andy Larsen recently told us how Utah has the second-largest pay gap in the nation. He offers a lot of helpful context, and you can find it here. Alisha and I were specifically interested in the cultural phenomena that led to the gap, and what we as individuals might have done differently. Or what we could do moving forward.
We chose to leave the guys on the edit board out for this conversation — even though we acknowledge we need their help on this one! We thought we’d share our back and forth here, edited for length and clarity.
Lauren: Alisha, motherhood can be an exit ramp for women who work full-time in Utah. What was your experience on the east coast, where, for the most part, the gap isn’t as wide as it is here?
Alisha: My professional life changed when my husband and I decided to start a family. I got pregnant with our first, and we decided to tell our bosses the wonderful news on the same day. The responses couldn’t have been more different. My boss asked if I would be coming back. My husband got a slap on the back and a raise because “he had a growing family to support.” I appreciated that raise for sure, but we were both stunned. It sort of sealed my professional fate.
Lauren: Not good.
Alisha: Right. My husband and I sat down and did the math on daycare and he was making more than I was. And we weren’t making much. If a parent was going to stay home, it made sense for me to be the one. It was financially prudent. I gave up my NYC daily reporting job — one that was fun, and wild, and required 50 plus hours a week. There isn’t daycare for that cadence of work. I also parked an extraordinary education and all the dues I’d paid working long hours and holidays. I gained a child, doubled down on my marriage, but lost my career.
Lauren: While we never explicitly said it out loud, no question if you asked my husband he’d say we focused on my career. I’m super grateful to him. He’s made a lot of what I’ve been able to do possible. I still think women can do it.
I also think on most days it feels like we as a society are moving in the wrong direction. As I look to my kids’ future — both boys — I’m already thinking, “What do they need to do to get ahead?” The choices they have are many, for a number of reasons. But, we’re still thinking about how to set them up for success, because that’s what we can try to control as a family. That is, versus making policy changes that seem so difficult, even though we know the economic ROI is there.
Alisha: It worked for you. You’re amazing at what you do. Yes, women can do it. But can both members of a couple do it, stay married and raise well-adjusted kids? Something has to give. Here in Utah, women are paid 73.1 cents for every dollar earned by men, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. How many women are stepping off the professions they worked so hard to enter because of the same basic financial calculus I used? I mean, look at what Caitlin Clark is being paid in the WNBA as the GOAT — $76,000 a year — vs. the number one NBA draft pick’s $10.5 million per year. If female superstars can’t make bank, what chance do we “normals” have?
In Utah’s Silicon Slopes, women also make less than men, according to our own reporting. Why are founders using precious start up dollars to pay men extra for the same work? How is that responsible? It’s shocking they’re willing to pay a premium just to hire men.
Lauren: At The Tribune, the average salary for women is higher than for men. It’s not a significant differential, but it exists, likely in part because we’ve got a lot of females in leadership positions. I will tell you I didn’t know this until I ran the numbers ahead of our conversation. Which you may say is a good thing. Or not. Intentionality matters. Measuring matters. Benchmarks are important.
Forty-three states have an equal pay law. As you know, Utah isn’t one of them. So if there is no law and very little incentive to change policy, what do we do with the 73 cents on the dollar number? How is that actionable at an individual level?
Well, here’s one thing: In my experience as a hiring manager, men are much more straightforward when it comes to negotiating their compensation. So I tell women I expect them to present a counter-offer. Sometimes it’s doable and sometimes it isn’t. But either way, we discuss why and we talk about the fact that it never hurts to ask.
Parental leave is another well-documented opportunity. We’ve got six weeks of paid leave at The Tribune, which isn’t enough — I commit here to working on this.
Alisha: Right. I think parental leave is a good start. But abroad, women get a year for every child. It’s just the right thing to do to keep talent. I mean, think of all the smart, hard working women who get sidelined by lousy policies. The brain drain is real. How do smarter policies become the norm? How do we support all families — with great parental leave, affordable, high-quality daycare options and then equal pay for all employees? These are the real family values that living, breathing families need to thrive.
Lauren: There are good, smart people working on it in Utah. Female legislators made up 25% of lawmakers on the hill in 2023, which is an increase from 15.4% in 2015. We need them and their male colleagues to shift our policies. We say we value mothers. Let’s show it.
Tell us about your experience with wage gaps and parental penalties here.
Alisha Gorder
Pre-kids, Alisha Gorder was on staff at the New York Times, New York Post and The Patriot Ledger. After motherhood, her work has appeared pro bono in the Easton Courier, freelance in the Hartford Courant and New York Times, and pro bono in the Salt Lake Tribune opinion pages. She currently serves pro bono on The Tribune’s editorial board.
(Francisco Kjolseth | The Salt Lake Tribune) Executive Editor Lauren Gustus.
Lauren Gustus is executive editor of The Salt Lake Tribune and mom of two elementary school-aged children.
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