Tuesday night’s off-the-rails first presidential debate between President Donald Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden was widely panned by pundits and observers after the participants talked over each other and moderator Chris Wallace.

Former Utah congressman and current Fox News pundit Jason Chaffetz says he believes the debate turned off a lot of people, especially those few Americans who are undecided at this point.

“I think the debate was sort of a reflection of America,” says Chaffetz. “We’re all talking past each other and telling each other to shut up, and I think that’s a little bit disappointing.”

Chaffetz, who is a supporter of Trump, says he believes the president came out of the event as the victor, but he knows there are observers on the left who believe the opposite.

“As a conservative who is very impressed with Donald Trump’s track record, I think Joe Biden showed he lacks a vision and excitement and enthusiasm and fresh ideas. But, if you hate Donald Trump, I’m sure you thought he did just fine,” he said.

Chaffetz was a guest on the “Utah Politics” podcast on Wednesday. He said he believes Trump is in good position to win another term in office despite what the polls show because there are many built-in advantages for the incumbent in American politics.

The moderator of Tuesday’s debate, Chaffetz’s Fox News colleague Chris Wallace, has taken a lot of criticism for the way he handled the clashes. Chaffetz says it’s unfair to blame Wallace for the way Trump and Biden conducted themselves.

“Show me the person who you think could have actually corralled it in so nobody was talking over each other. I don’t know if anybody could have done that,” he added.

Chaffetz said he would favor more debates leading up to the presidential election, not fewer. He also discusses the media furor over Trump’s seeming refusal to condemn white supremacy during the debate. You can listen to the full interview below or at this link.

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