But when it comes to City Creek Center - a project that arguably will do far more to mold downtown - the public debate mostly comes in dribs and drabs.

Ironically, this muted grass-roots response comes at a time when church leaders have shown an increased willingness to listen and even bend. While they refused to blink during the plaza staredown, they already have yielded twice on City Creek.

Just last week, the church bowed to public pressure and announced it will save the Deseret National Bank/First Security Bank building from the wrecking ball.

"We'll have a far better project if we listen to, collectively, the feelings, the mood of the city and those who are interested in the city," H. David Burton, the LDS presiding bishop in charge of the redevelopment, told City Council members.

The church has strived to reach out. It has presented its plans to city officials in public meetings. It has held private briefings with some groups and sent a model of the mall to every city library branch.

Despite the publicity blitz, city officials debating major policy shifts for the new mall still go begging for input. Mayor Rocky Anderson has noted the silence from the public, and planning commissioners wring their hands about the hush.

To be sure, the plaza was more controversial and carried implications of free speech, property rights and the tangling of church and state. But the church's estimated $1 billion endeavor to turn 20 acres in the heart of downtown into a retail and housing center is no less important.

Shaping the project: The property, mostly on Main Street between South Temple and 100 South, stands at the center of Utah's financial district and adjacent to the LDS Church's most sacred site, the Salt Lake Temple. Done right, City Creek could re-establish downtown as a shopping powerhouse and spur development on surrounding blocks. Get it wrong and it threatens to repeat the mistakes of the past, re-creating the failed ZCMI Center and Crossroads Plaza malls.

So far, even the relatively subdued debate is helping to shape the project. Besides reversing course on the bank building, the church has shelved plans for parking on the ground floor of a new parking garage on Social Hall Avenue and agreed to abide by pedestrian-friendly rules that require street-level shops, restaurants or offices.

"We have a couple of accomplishments so far," resident planning activist and former Planning Commissioner Cindy Cromer told commissioners recently in urging them to slow down on other church requests. "And you haven't even voted on anything yet. That's what time and conversation have done for us."

The church touts its attempts to elicit comments - winning praise from the city - noting that 30,000 people have viewed its City Creek Web site. Almost 1,300 people have shared their views, though feedback has plunged in the past month.

One likely explanation: People like the plan. The church will add a sorely needed grocery store. It will build housing, which would have been revolutionary for downtown just years ago. And it will remove the scar that is the two malls.

Some, no doubt, worry about threatening the redevelopment with criticism and figure the church and its national retail partner, Taubman Centers Inc., cannot make downtown any worse. Others fear they have no chance to make it better.

'Give the developers everything': "It's just tough getting the community to understand," said Stephen Goldsmith, former city planning director who has been sharing his concerns with the church and has noticed the lack of public involvement. "They don't necessarily understand that, as members of a community, they have a voice in these choices about the shaping of their community."

He suspects some architects are holding back their unease with the design for fear of offending the church.

As Goldsmith has publicly fought the church's proposed sky bridge, he has wondered: "Where are all the other young architects in town? Are they worried they won't get church contracts?"

Avenues resident Shane Carlson sent an admittedly unscientific survey to 70 people normally active in city affairs to understand the dearth of feedback. Just 22 responded - and several revealed their pessimism about the process. They agreed with the statement: "I don't feel that commenting would make a difference. The city is going to give the developers everything they ask for."

Indeed, some City Council members already have said they support the church's most controversial request: a Main Street sky bridge. Even Mayor Anderson, an ardent skywalk foe, has softened his stand.

And history proves the church tends to get what it wants from City Hall.

Plus, Taubman and the church have given virtually an ultimatum on the skywalk, warning that Taubman and anchor stores Macy's and Nordstrom "will not go forward as planned without the bridge." And they have demanded quick policy shifts while the public is still digesting the proposals.

"If they're just going to take their ball and go home, why comment on this? There's no discussion," Carlson said.

In addition, observers say, the city has made it confusing to get involved. Only recently did the city post a link on its Web site giving the dates when comment will be accepted at upcoming Planning Commission meetings.

Such obstacles haven't deterred a handful of activists - regulars who make up the bulk of participants at recent commission meetings.

'Dressed-up version of the old mall': Citizens such as Goldsmith and Cromer have become downtown watchdogs, holding the church to its stated goals of ensuring the mall is pedestrian-friendly, revitalizing Main Street, offering a timeless design and connecting with neighboring blocks. The activists demand that the city require more information - about traffic plans and site elevations to see how the mall will mesh.

"It is our business, as a community, to get working on how this project will fit," Cromer said. "The time to do that planning is right now."

Despite church assurances that it will deliver a stellar project, fears are growing that the layout repeats mistakes of the past.

"The present design of City Creek Center, with its insular approach to pedestrian activity and weak connections with the rest of the city, looks like a dressed-up version of the old mall configuration," said Elizabeth Mitchell, executive director of the Utah chapter of the American Institute of Architects.

Public air rights: The sky bridge is the church's most contentious request. Opponents fear it will set not only a precedent for more bridges cluttering the sky, but also hurt surrounding shops - downtown stalwarts Utah Woolen Mills, Sam Weller's Zion Bookstore, Bennion Jewelers, McKay Diamonds - at the expense of helping the church's powerful partner, Taubman.

Pressure is on for the church to temper Taubman's wishes and instead look out for Salt Lake City's long-term interests. Goldsmith is watching "how strongly [the church] is going to be willing to stand up to Taubman. How much [the church] is going to stand up and point out, these are our community values."

But even after criticizing the bridge, Goldsmith said the church is listening. With the help of City Councilman Eric Jergensen, he huddled with church officials to try to persuade them to change designs. He evoked the heyday of downtown, the smells of freshly baked bread at stands outside the mall and the willingness of shoppers to walk from Auerbach's on 300 South to ZCMI because there was something to see.

"No matter what Taubman is telling us, [the church's] heart is in the right place," Goldsmith said.

Even if such planning debates are best left to experts, the council will be voting on a policy the public can understand because it has seen it before: The skywalk will require the city to sell public air rights over Main Street, just like it sold public ground rights for the Main Street Plaza.

hmay@sltrib.com

Getting involved

The Planning Commission invites public comment about City Creek Center through at least February.

* MEETINGS are scheduled for Wednesday, Jan. 10, Jan. 24, Feb. 13 and Feb. 27 at 5:45 p.m. in Room 326 of City Hall, 451 S. State St.

* WRITTEN COMMENTS can be sent to www.slcgov.com/ events/downtown malls.htm.The LDS Church is accepting comment at www.downtownrising.com/city creek/

* PUBLIC HEARINGS will be held once the City Council begins to debate policy changes the church has requested.