Orem » Stevie Smith wanted to ask Rudy Giuliani a question about his crime-fighting policy in New York City.
But Smith, a Timpanogos High School senior and Youth Council member said he and another youth council member, Derek Sorensen, were booted off the body for "embarrassing" the former New York City mayor at the Utah State Capitol in January.
"I just want my voice to be heard," Smith said. "I was thrown off for an unjust reason."
Smith and Sorensen pleaded their case before the City Council Tuesday night, calling their removal unfair. But city officials said the pair were dismissed from the youth council for insubordination, and not for asking Giuliani about whether abortion was the reason crime rates dropped in the Big Apple.
"There were other issues of behavior and concern," claimed Mayor Jerry Washburn. "Being a member of the Youth City Council is a privilege, not a right." He also said Attorney Paul B. Johnson's decision as council adviser to remove the teens was not subject to appeal.
Smith and Sorensen, who have been on the youth body for almost two years, were at the Capitol as part of the Utah League of Cities and Towns' (UCLT) Local Officials Day on Jan. 27. Giuliani was the luncheon speaker, and branded his community-policing program -- which intensified prosecution of minor crimes -- as a success.
But Smith said he read the book Freakonomics last summer, which disputed Giuliani's claim. In the book, economist Steven D. Levitt argues that an increase in abortions in the 1970s resulted in the lower crime rate in the 1990s.
When Giuliani agreed to take questions, Smith decided to ask him about Levitt's claims. "We thought it would be a good question to ask," Sorensen said.
After Giuliani answered the question, Smith and Sorensen said a visibly angry Johnson began yelling at them, accusing Smith of embarrassing Giuliani and the city. Sorensen said Johnson yelled at him when he defended his friend's right to ask the question.
Two days later, the boys were notified in a letter that they were off the council. One page of the letter was devoted to the Giuliani question, while one paragraph on the second page dealt with other issues.
Johnson was not available for comment Wednesday, but in his letter, he said Smith's question was inappropriate, and that Smith "basically called [Giuliani] a liar." He said Smith's actions embarrassed the city and officials from around Utah.
"It appears that you went in to the luncheon with the arguments from Freakonomics as your agenda," Johnson wrote. "You wanted to show how smart a high school senior was and bring Mayor Giuliani down in people's estimation."
Johnson said ULCT executive director Ken Bullock tried to stop Giuliani from responding, and that ULCT President Steve Fairbanks pulled the plug on further dialogue after the exchange. But Bullock said his only concern that day was the time.
"I can tell you at that time I was anxious to have the meeting concluded because the Legislature was convening at two [o'clock]," Bullock recalled.
Fairbanks said the only reason he stood up was because it was time to go. While he acknowledged the question was "goofy," he said it would be disappointing if the teens were removed from the council for that reason.
"We can't be afraid of questions because they are awkward," said Fairbanks, a Sandy City Councilman.
