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Forklift driver Chevon Livingston had a first-time experience on Thanksgiving Day that he swears will also be his last.

Livingston, 21, of West Valley City, stood outside a South Salt Lake Best Buy for seven hours with his girlfriend in hopes of getting a blockbuster of a holiday deal.

"We had to get a blanket and we laid down and did whatever we could to stay warm," said Livingston, who missed out on a turkey dinner to stand in line.

Livingston and Nichelle Trujillo scored big. The pair bought two televisions — a 40-inch screen and a 49-incher — and an Xbox One, Sony PS4 and a game.

"It's a heck of deal," said Livingston. "But I'll never do this again. Never, ever. Thanksgiving is more about family, it's not about shopping."

Black Friday used to kick off the holiday shopping season, but now that day has taken a backseat to Thanksgiving Day. Still, retailers have settled into times that don't interfere with the turkey feast.

After opening earlier and earlier on the holiday, this year, most of the more than a dozen major retailers — including Macy's, Target and Kohl's — opened at 5 p.m. or 6 p.m. on Thanksgiving Day.

One big exception: J.C. Penney, which opened two hours earlier at 3 p.m.

Staples has reversed course and remained closed on the holiday. And sporting goods chain REI, which was always closed on Thanksgiving, is bowing out of Black Friday, too.

"I think it's kind of stupid how they keep moving it back further and further. Twenty years ago, it was 6 in the morning and that was crazy," said Garrison Lewis, who was also at Best Buy with his cousin, James McWhorter, and a clipboard of ads from the electronics store and other retailers.

"Next year it will be Wednesday night," McWhorter said.

It's a prediction that's sort of already come true. Many stores already begin pushing discounts on holiday goods well before the official weekend. Increasingly, they've been discounting holiday merchandise earlier in the month.

In fact, according to the National Retail Federation, the nation's largest retail trade group, nearly 60 percent of shoppers started holiday shopping Nov. 10.

That should take a bite out of the sales this weekend, though Black Friday should still rank either No. 1 or No. 2 in sales for the year.

The retail federation estimates about 135.8 million people will shop this weekend, compared with 133.7 million last year. The trade group expects about 30 million to shop on Thanksgiving, compared with 99.7 million on Black Friday.

Overall, the group expects a 3.7 percent increase in sales to $630.5 billion, though the growth is much higher than the 10-year average of 2.5 percent.

But grabbing those dollars will be tough. While the overall economy has improved, shoppers remain tight-fisted. The unemployment rate has settled into a healthy 5 percent rate, but shoppers still grapple with stagnant wages that are not keeping pace with rising costs for things like rent.

Stores are also contending with an increasing shift to researching and buying online.

Still, there wasn't much sign that shoppers were reluctant to open their wallets on Thursday.

At one Salt Lake City Wal-Mart, the aisles were so jammed that shoppers struggled to push carts through, and police were assisting store workers trying to keep things under control.

"It was really funny," said Kristine Berg, who dropped in to pick up a movie with her 17-year-old son without really expecting a crush of shoppers.

"As it got closer to 6 p.m. people started circling around certain [items], you could really see what they wanted," added Berg.

The Bergs had luck on their side. They snagged a wristband for one of just eight coveted notebook computers the store had in stock for the bargain price of just $200.

They also were also able to pick up a few other items from their family Christmas list at great prices, Kristine Berg said.

"It was fun," she said.

Back at Best Buy, Leslie and Dero Gertsch, were not as fortunate.

The Woods Cross couple arrived at the store and stood in the cold for about 25 minutes before its 6 p.m. opening — not in time to snag the 40-inch television they wanted.

"They're all gone," Leslie Gertsch said, adding that they were drawn in by the ad's $149 price.

Undeterred by the Thanksgiving Day loss, however, the Gertsches plan to head back to the stores — as is their tradition — on Friday, Dero Gertsch said.

"We like Black Friday," his wife said.

The Associated Press contributed to the story.